Curse

CagedinSanity · Feb 07, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

One is that I feel a sense of accomplishment completing a hard quest or mission. I gain some gold and possibly a few items worth keeping or selling.

I'd like to expand on this.

I'm not bashing PvP, just giving another reason as a pure PvE player;
in PvP, getting slaughtered and made fun of doesn't exactly fill that accomplishment cup. People (or pros, that is) always say "Oh, you learn from getting killed!" I think this is so untrue, and I just wanted to get that out.
Also, It feels as though there is very limited PvP missions to do, like 5 or 6 or something. but there are like 50 (all 3 campaigns) missions and... too many quests to count you can do on PvE.

Blame the Monks · Feb 07, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Losing is never fun. Why would you expect it to be any different in PvP?

Thargor · Feb 07, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

PvE has an easier learning curve than PvP does. It takes zero skill to make a character and join a group in PvE. PvP on the other hand is not the easiest thing to get into. Alot of people think "I want to PvP so ill go to HA", well that just doesn't work really. It is tough to get into groups for higher level PvP if your not experienced and if you don't have the skills to run the builds you will need.

In PvE you can pretty much throw some skills on your bar and most times nobody will even ask you to ping your bar. It is extremely easy to jump on the web and grab a build and just go use it. For PvP you can still go grab the build but it takes more knowledge on how to use it. Generally to be into higher level PvP takes the support of an experienced guild that is willing to take in new players and help them learn. Without a guild to back you up and help out it is a slow and tough grind to gain the experience and knowledge needed to be effective. PvE is just easier and you dont have to deal with the extreme amount of bad mannered players that just come with the competitive nature of PvP.

shadowmist · Feb 07, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

PvP winning feels kinda stale. You win, and then... that's it. PvE winning it feels like you're doing something, helping that one dude out and whatnot. There's a story to PvE, which helps you relate to things and makes what you do feel worthwhile.

I personally don't have any trouble with grinding, inventory clutter, or such things. Grinding never was a problem, I always had more than enough points for whatever i needed. I guess I'm just more organized than you cause my inventory is ordered, and I have no problem finding what I need. I know my friend has a crazy inventory though, but he really isn't that smart so... (no offense if you read this... but you admitted it yourself so...)

Alleji · Feb 07, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

I'm not bashing PvP, just giving another reason as a pure PvE player; in PvP, getting slaughtered and made fun of doesn't exactly fill that accomplishment cup. People (or pros, that is) always say "Oh, you learn from getting killed!" I think this is so untrue, and I just wanted to get that out.

Of course, you learn from getting killed, but only if you pay attention to how you got killed and think what you can do about it before hitting "enter mission" again. Also, not everyone makes fun of new players. I, personally, don't... (However, I do trashtalk shitty gimmick builds religiously) Sure in 10 seconds before you're kicked out you can't really comment on the fight, but if somebody is interested enough to PM me and ask why I think that IW is a bad skill, for example, I'll gladly explain.

Quote:

Also, It feels as though there is very limited PvP missions to do, like 5 or 6 or something. but there are like 50 (all 3 campaigns) missions and... too many quests to count you can do on PvE.

PvP is created by players. PvE is created by anet. Yes, the PvP "missions" are fairly limited in number, but there are a lot more possibilities per mission than in PvE, where you're going through programmed content and it will always turn out to be the same way.

blood4blood · Feb 07, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

I play PvE because...
1) It's fun.
2) My wife hates PvP of all kinds in all games, including GW. Since I play GW with my wife, that pretty much eliminates PvP as an option.
3) Not specific to GW, but just in general, for PvP, I prefer shooters over RPG's. It just doesn't feel right to me if I don't have to aim.

Age · Feb 07, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thargor

PvE has an easier learning curve than PvP does. It takes zero skill to make a character and join a group in PvE. PvP on the other hand is not the easiest thing to get into. Alot of people think "I want to PvP so ill go to HA", well that just doesn't work really. It is tough to get into groups for higher level PvP if your not experienced and if you don't have the skills to run the builds you will need.

In PvE you can pretty much throw some skills on your bar and most times nobody will even ask you to ping your bar. It is extremely easy to jump on the web and grab a build and just go use it. For PvP you can still go grab the build but it takes more knowledge on how to use it. Generally to be into higher level PvP takes the support of an experienced guild that is willing to take in new players and help them learn. Without a guild to back you up and help out it is a slow and tough grind to gain the experience and knowledge needed to be effective. PvE is just easier and you dont have to deal with the extreme amount of bad mannered players that just come with the competitive nature of PvP.

The only thing about this is that in HA you need to get in to a PuG group that is no different than one on in a coop mission unless you are Ranked but no big deal and Ra well that is all random.
When it does come to PvE in a coop mission you can't just through some build together anf hope it works and a lot of players want you to pig your nowadays.PvE does require skill and the more you have the easier it gets.

Heavenly Lily · Feb 07, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

As stated many times, you have some serious gamers in PvP. However, the.. er, disposition that is displayed there isn't as bad as has been exaggerated. However, I will say that 75% of the time people are rude when they beat you or just ignore your "gg's".

Maybe this is just coming from being a monk... Shucks I tell you! ><

I will also agree that PvE is so much easier. You can be a great player in PvE and die in a snap in PvP. Also, it's so much more complex. PvP is where you actually have to pay attention to builds and complimenting each other in parties whereas in PvE it's just "LF tank" "nuker" or whatever.

I like playing PvP but it gets to the point where its really just 'blah...'

crime.mob · Feb 07, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

original poster---

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Heck, it's not too hard to see in this thread - how many "people PvE because they suck" have we seen? No one on the PvE end of things say *all* PvP'ers are, just that the attitude is prevalent there and unavoidable - few deny it, just say we have to learn to put up with it (Umm, no I do not).

hmmm the thread is getting off topic (with my help

), I responded with a defence on pvp because in this thread, almost 6/10 of the people that respond give complaints about PvP, and i was adressing those ppl. 2/10 (which you were adressing) are like "ppl pve b/c they sux at pvp" , and i won't lie, that thats the prevalent feeling about in the arenas.

But the other 2/10 respond with what the topic is about: whats so great about pve that a HUGE majority of ppl prefer it to pve. From the posts flaming pvp... i just retrieved that they pve b/c they apparantly hate pvp

. But from those who addressed the topic, i obtained that people pve because they like to play open ended quests that rewards some tangible reward. They also like to be able to log on and achieve something, unlike pvp where you can go on losing streaks and burn a lot of time.

(note that faction drives many pvpers along, as you can obtain any skill, at any time, and it gives you the freedom to expirament with several classes and builds easily... and elites are insanely more attainable)

myword · Feb 07, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Because when you've been playing the game for a while and whenever anything bad happens in PvE and it always turns out to be because someone has moaned about it in PvP it kinda gets frustrating. It'd be like parking your car...you choose to park it somewhere one day...then someone else moans and the next day you find the council has painted double-yellow lines so you can't park. You're forced to find somewhere else...but someone else moans about it and the cycle starts again...and this happens every time. It's the same with PvP. Someone complains that they can't counter a specific skill with their W/Mo and when they whine enough it gets changed so all the builds that PvEers find fun to use are no longer fun because "PvPers say it must be so". After a while it does start to really hack you off. If you find a way of not letting that happen you let me know mmmkay?

how did my response to your saying that you're not able to brush off 'abuse' from a kid online go to skill balance?? i must have misunderstood you then, thought you were talking about getting upset because someone said something to you

and if you're still harping on about skill balance priorities, you're clueless because there have been plenty of logical explanations on the forums

Feb 07, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

responding to the o.p.

i pve only because of numerous reasons. but ill only post a few.

keep in mind ive pvp'd enough to gain 14 fame and win halls once.

1.)getting into a group that IS NOT a guild group without having rank3+ is near impossible, most want rank5+ now.
getting into a guild thats mainly pvp without having previous experience is near impossible. i chalk both up to elitism.

notice i used "near impossible" in both lines. nothing is impossible.

2.)the general attitude that i noticed in my short lived stint while trying pvp was appauling. yes, i know this game isnt for children. but people screaming / cursing at players because they didnt do something absolutely perfect is ridiculous. the cursing and screaming were over vent, and not directed at me btw.

ive tried ta and ra, and both had the same attitude. people lose, they say things the devil would frown to hear. people win and its pretty much the same thing.

ive played numerous games online, bf2, aao, swat3-4, roguespear, etc... and never heard this kinda abuse. not until i tried gw pvp.

/chop

Oink The Pig · Feb 08, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

I think more people play PvE more than PvP because there's a lower barrier to entry. You can just pick up the game, make a RP character, and start killing stuff and progressing. For PvP, you need to unlock skills, find other people to play with, keep up with the metagame, etc.

Personally, I bought the game for the PvP, but had to go through PvE to unlock skills and upgrades (prior to Balthazar Faction). Then I decided that I wanted to make my PvE chars PvP-ready so that I could just jump back and forth between PvE and PvP without too much hassle (and show off high-end PvE armor in PvP, of course). So that's pretty much why I PvE now...to progress my characters to the point where eventually I feel comfortable using them in PvP...and, of course, to obtain more loot to support armor, weapon, rune/insignia, and skill purchases. It's a good way to unwind when there's no GvG going on or HA groups forming, and there's something satisfying about beating a top-100 guild while wielding an IDS.

strcpy · Feb 08, 2007, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by crime.mob

hmmm the thread is getting off topic (with my help

), I responded with a defence on pvp because in this thread, almost 6/10 of the people that respond give complaints about PvP, and i was adressing those ppl. 2/10 (which you were adressing) are like "ppl pve b/c they sux at pvp" , and i won't lie, that thats the prevalent feeling about in the arenas.

And I suppose I am probably one of the 6/10 complaining about PvP. Though you were not one of the ones I was referring too in the part you quoted. Nor do I particularly mean my complaints as flames - in my younger days I would have been in there with them also and had quite a bit of fun.

Quote:

But from those who addressed the topic, i obtained that people pve because they like to play open ended quests that rewards some tangible reward. They also like to be able to log on and achieve something, unlike pvp where you can go on losing streaks and burn a lot of time.

There is some of that, however the number one reason why *I* do not PvP is the general attitude of PvP'rs that I ran into. 80-90% were quite - didn't hear anything from them and if I did it was short and polite. 1% or so were "nice" - that is actively going out of their way to be helpful. The rest seemed to spend as much time as possible trying to be, well, something not nice. It was a high enough percentage that one could not do that without running into them all the time and they were *vocal*. In order to get into areas and the part of the game where that didn't occur took time I do not have to devote to the game.

Again, not a flame and 100% on topic. In my opinion it is one of the main reasons why PvE is more popular. There are other contributing factors, but I still think that if this were not true then PvP would have a much larger following - in fact if you look at arenas that are popular they are places where you can, to a large extent, ignore and not deal with those people. I look at it this way - the other reasons need to be in combination - rewards, open endedness, etc haven't stopped other PvP games from being popular, the server community kills or maintains it. Those are more reasons why people like PvE than reasons why they do not PvP - if those same people liked both they would play both, the two ends aren't really in competition where you have to choose one over the other.

Note, this isn't things like dancing on my corpse, flexing, or other such things. As I said, you can read through this thread and see the exact attitudes I am talking of. As you stated, you get them in PvE too, just I can safely get away from them and still play the game.

Quote:

(note that faction drives many pvpers along, as you can obtain any skill, at any time, and it gives you the freedom to expirament with several classes and builds easily... and elites are insanely more attainable)

And this is the only thing that keeps me grinding some away in PvP - however once I found out about playing the "training" PvP stuff against the AI to get faction I haven't looked back. I even enjoy goofing with the Zaishen areas and wish it had WAY more builds to play against and it was just as hard as playing against real humans (this isn't going to happen, I do not think that AI can even get close to that point). Personally I would also like to see a "one against many" always up arena where it is just a free for all kill-fest (effectively a PK town/district on the battle isles).

Shmanka · Feb 08, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

More than anything else, rank is a decent measure of your experience. Not skill, mind you, though they're (very) loosely related. A rank4 individual is going to have more experience--likely both good and bad--than a rank1.

Yet there is massive discrimination about it. Which is the most funny part of it all. It's no wonder why most PvE'rs just purely do that, I understand there is sometimes a negative attitude towards that as well, but the insults aren't as direct or offensive.

Oso Minar · Feb 08, 2007, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Personally I would also like to see a "one against many" always up arena where it is just a free for all kill-fest (effectively a PK town/district on the battle isles).

HAHA, I love it, great idea. Have a [Records] person and time how long each person can be standing. That'd be hysterical to do, I'd have a blast in that.

Which brings me to my point.

Soloing.

(Okay, it wasn't a close link but here we go anyways)

Another huge reason that I PvP is that I can solo, and solo EFFECTIVELY. I've gotten the Protector title twice (Cantha and Elona, and halfway through Tyria at the moment) and I've done most of it with either henchmen or one friend and the rest henchmen. With the new introduction of Heroes, almost every single completion has been with the same friend (and his heroes) or solo with henchmen to fill in.

Is it sorta "lame" that people can solo and duo through PvE stuff? Does it take "no skill" because our Heroes can take the place of humans (which, by the way, I don't feel is true...skilled and runed up properly, they can do a much better job than many people, it just takes skill and observation from the user)? I don't particularly feel so. My Heroes don't whine or scream at me, they don't complain, and I know that they have the skills, gear, and experience they need to help me through the missions. Extra emphasis on the "don't whine or scream at me" part.

Now, I may be biased because I haven't really gotten into the high-end PvP stuff yet. I'm one of those people who want to "finish" my character. On my to-do list? Protector of Elona, seeing what these "Hard Mode" things are all about, Tri-Grandmaster-Cartographer, and the Elite Skill Hunter title. I'm not in a Top 100 guild; hell, my guild only has two people in it (myself and a friend).

That, however, doesn't mean that I'm an idiot. And a lot of people think it does.

I've worked my tail off to become good at being a Ritualist. I like my character, and I don't particularly care to play a different one. For one, I dislike that PvP folks will require people to play classes they don't like, simply to stay in the group. Let me play my Ritualist or leave me be; I have 90 unused skill points (over 1.5mil exp, I can't keep up with the money), I can buy or capture whatever skill you feel (BELIEVE. IT MUST BE SO.) that I should be bringing along.

I feel that in part, the narrow-mindedness of many people in the PvP community plays a very large part in the alienation of "PvE People". If things aren't flawless, if a character isn't as efficient as humanly possible, they're terrible and should never PvP again. Only certain skills should be used. Only certain builds work. Only certain weapons should be used. And if you're not? Either learn to use them, farm the faction to get them, or "go crying to your PvE momma".

Now, I think that a big part of that actually comes from the PvP system ITSELF. Many of the problems are created by the system. The fact that a select tier of people have gotten so skilled leaves very little room for error, and increasingly people are HAVING to require perfection from their players just to make it through. And even if they have perfection, oftentimes that isn't even enough! There has to be a loser! This I feel just leads to frustration and anger, and it's so often pinned on that tiny flaw or imperfection. And most often, in TA or the arenas that "noobs" can feel somewhat safe in, it's pinned directly on said "noobs". And that turns a lot of people away.

Am I saying that perfection is a bad thing? Absolutely not. It's required, I understand this. To a certain extent, it's also required in the upper-tiers of PvE as well. It's downright difficult to get some of those missions done (thank you, DoA!). Do some of us PvE players research skills to find out what is most efficient? Do some of us take the time to "practice" our skills (mostly by just doing PvE...same as you PvP folk, although we solo ours)? Do some of us scrounge up the cash for the best equipment that we need? The answer is yes to all of them.

PvP and PvE both have their areas for eletism. However, in PvE, it's easily escapable, simply because we can solo many of the "easier" things. There are rarely any "easy" moments in PvP (even in the RA, it's hard to keep those horrible builds alive), and once again, that leads to frustration and anger which in turn is pushed onto the new folks...who in turn go off to solo and end up liking the lack of pressure.

Do I wish that I was more into PvP? At times, yes. I'm sure when I start pressing on those Grandmaster Cartographer titles, there will be NUMEROUS times when I'll ask myself if there could be more fun things that I could be doing. However, a few things are blocking me from doing so (I feel). I'm not in a big PvP guild. I don't have very much experience with other classes; I can handle myself, but I truly shine playing a Ritualist. I have Vent, but hate using it because talking to my computer depresses me (old, bad memories of other elitist games). But you know what? Those things can ALL be cancelled out by PvE. I can play the class I want, I can solo or duo just about everything, and I can blast my music as loud as I want in the background. The only thing that bums me out sometimes is not being in a guild with more experienced people. I would love bouncing ideas off the guild and trying some new things; as such, I can do that with my friend, but it always helps to have more friends to arge with, y'know? No regrets though, 'cause there's no pressure to do anything.

So there's my two bucks (I wrote way more than two cents, c'mon) on the whole thing. Thanks to those who read it all. To those who didn't, I'll try to summarize.

PvP demands perfection. When things screw up, people blame the cause. That cause is normally newer people. Who in turn turn to that which does not blame them: PvE.

(apologies for spelling errors)

cellardweller · Feb 08, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

My favorite quote on the topic is "I'd pvp more, if it weren't for the pvp'ers".

Cyclades of Knossos · Feb 08, 2007, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

Well, I play PvE not only because I find it fun, but because I've found PvP ridiculous. Please don't get me wrong, I am very much interested in PvPing. Here's the problem. It's harder to get in a group than any pve mission. That is, if you're a r3 noob like me or lower. Just today, I got totally turned off the elitism/stupidity of of pvping.

I'll start with the stupidity, not of the whole player vs. player mechanic, but of the players who are using. I went o AB, just to grind out some Balt faction, and have fun (hopefully winning). After 10-15 minutes of the timer counting down, we finally get in. After we do that, the stupidity starts. 5, count em, FIVE people are afkrs! So that leaves 7 people against 12 Luxons. WE are already at a disadvantage, but being competitive, I still want to do my best. Unfortunately, the majority of my side didn't really care, so they just ran around making jokes and what not. I can't really blame them for giving up, but hell, that's still annoying.

So then i say, screw it, I'll try my chances in HA. I knew this was like the creme de la creme of pvp so to speak, and getting in a group would be hard. I didn't know how hard until an hour later of "LFG I will try my best to do whatever you want me to" without even a "get out noob". Totally ignored.

Eh, whatever, I figured I'd try my luck in TA. See HA paragraph.

Ooookay, down to RA, hell, at least I don't actually have to form the group here. Press Enter Battle, get in a match right away. Almost as quick as we get into the match, two people from my team leave. Of course, no one leaves on the other side. I chalked it up to bad luck, and tried again. 6 games in a row where someone left I said screw it.

So what's left for me? PvE that's what. Can't find a group? Cool, Koss, Dunkoro, Olias saddle up. Find a PUG but it's got leavers and Leeroys? Cool, Sousuke, Master of Whispers, Norgu, let's ride fellas. PvE is the only thing for me at this point.

Ditto x1000!

Envious · Feb 08, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Well, I play both PvE and PvP, just depends on what I want to go for, but most of the time I'm PvEing. Keep in mind this is a MMORPG, hence majority of PvEers.

The Silver Star · Feb 08, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by noocoo

Because they are playing a RPG game, not counterstrike or cards game.

Yes an RPG not an MMORPG anymore.

strcpy · Feb 08, 2007, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oso Minar

HAHA, I love it, great idea. Have a [Records] person and time how long each person can be standing. That'd be hysterical to do, I'd have a blast in that.

I've never really thought about rewards too much as I do not think we will ever see it. There would need to be some type of balance in that a melee-kill heavy build would be roughly as desirable as a pure healer and I'm not sure how to do that without teams. GW is, at it's heart, a team based game and really shines there. I just have quite a bit of fun as a pure solo-farmer and I would like to see a PvP equivalent.

I just know I would spend quite a bit of time there playing around if done remotely decent (and I generally have faith that they could do it so). Though much more than what is said so far belongs in the Sanitarium them hijacking this thread.